Q&A: What's the Difference Between Jealousy & Envy

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to the Soul Food Priest podcast with Father Ben. It's wonderful as always to have you and I'm here with Sylvia and Kira. Hey guys. Hello. How's life? I'm back! Yes she is! Yep. Lord help us in all your glory. Thank you Jesus. We are very grateful as always to have you Sylvia because you are always a light of joy and Christian goodness. I bring the company.

[00:00:25] Yeah, I mean it really is amazing to always have you with us. Yeah. Because you're a busy mama too. I am. I am. And I mean so is my friend. I'm more committed than me. Pray for me. Oh, but you had fun travels though. I did. I did. We had a couple fun travels with my son and then a lot of stuff, but we're back. We're ready.

[00:00:49] We're happy to have you. So I brought you, I brought this book I want to show off. So it's called The Butter Book. It's so cool. By Anna Stockwell, who's a food writer and this little book, note that the back of it is like a stick of butter. I mean yes. Okay. And if you touch it, it feels just like it. When I saw you walk in, I'm like that's butter. Isn't that awesome? Doesn't that make you proud to be an American? I mean that is so beautiful.

[00:01:16] And so what's really, really cool, I love this book. It's 112 pages. Every chapter is a different aspect of butter, like how to make your own butter, butter recipes, a history of butter. Yeah. What does butter go with and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And why is butter light years better than margarine? And so it's really, really good. Huh? He would have this book. Yeah, of course he would have this book. In my defense, I did not buy it. One of our parishioners gave it to me. It's so cool.

[00:01:44] I was gonna say, this had to have been... Look, it feels like a stick of butter. It does feel like a stick of butter. Isn't that cool? Isn't that cool? Oh my gosh. Yo. That's what I was gonna say. He just opened, like look at this, like come on. You just open it up and it's just... Yeah, it's butter stuff. Butter. Like look at that. Yeah. Yeah. Whoever gives this to him, he's happy. I mean for real. And so how do you make clarified butter? What's the difference between this and this?

[00:02:12] And yeah, very, very cool. Butter makes scallops. Very cool. We're gonna be needing these recipes done so we can find them. As I'm like... So I'll give this right back to you. Yes. Yes. And we will need some of that stuff. It's really, really... It makes me happy that the gospel of butter is taking root in the next generation. Yeah, there's... Speaking of which, I read a book. You guys would love this book. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:39] And I'm about a chapter away from finishing it. Uh-huh. So it's called The Secret History of French Cooking by a guy named Luke Barr. B-A-R-R. And awesome. Yeah. It's such a good book. It was so good. Yeah. And... Because it kind of talks about the history of French cooking and kind of the rivalries and competitiveness and stuff like that.

[00:03:24] Mm-hmm. I've never seen any women in the kitchen. Like ever. Mm-hmm. And I once were... I'll never forget the first female chef I worked with. She was from Louisiana. Her name was Lucy. Uh-huh. Incredible. I mean, she was a badass, man. Oh, yeah. Like a Jedi Knight in the kitchen. She's incredible. Mm-hmm. But it was amazing how like the other guys didn't even see her. Mm-hmm. Wow. Right?

[00:03:50] And then I worked with another woman who was a pastry chef named Elizabeth who's incredibly talented. Same thing. Mm-hmm. Same thing. But anyway, this book talks about some of these famous French chefs like Paul Bocuse. Mm-hmm. And I've always looked up to Paul Bocuse and I still do, but he was... It was telling the history of like this blatant chauvinism. Yeah. That these guys had. Yeah.

[00:04:19] I mean like Paul Bocuse would say things like... And he had a massive, massive impact on the culinary world. Mm-hmm. And... But he died in 2018. And so he... But he used to say that women are incapable of creative thought. Oh. I mean this is... And this chef said this, okay? He said, I would never hire women... Wow. Oh my goodness. And not once, but many, many, many times. Wow.

[00:04:48] And actually what's really interesting, and this is the reason I bring it up, it, believe it or not, his just unapologetic chauvinism... Yeah. Yeah. Women could never function in a professional kitchen. Mm-hmm. He said they need, in his words, they need to stay in their home kitchen and in the bedroom. Oh. Oh. Yes. Yeah. Well, I'm sure he was a great cook. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Was he married? Yeah. He was married.

[00:05:18] And he was... And this is... Jesus, a lot of money. I mean, it's mind numbing. I never knew this stuff about Paul Bocuse. Yeah. And, but he would say these kind of things just to poke the bear to, like, get a rise out of people, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, I mean, it's crazy. And so he... So what happened was this, it, believe it or not, in reaction to some of...

[00:05:46] It wasn't just Paul Bocuse, it was other French chefs at the time. We're talking 70s... Yeah. 60s, 70s. Different times. Mm-hmm. Right? The women chefs that were coming up at the time, they banded together, started their own association to support each other in their work. And the Michelin God at the time would not even entertain the thought of professional female chefs. Wow. They wouldn't even discuss it.

[00:06:15] Now it's the norm. Yeah. In those days, they were like, please. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And so the Galt and what they call the Galt and Mio food guide, which is another one very common around the world, they began to take notice of these female chefs, right? Mm-hmm. So it's a very interesting book, and it talks about a lot of the blatant persecution that

[00:06:40] a lot of these women chefs went through at the time, especially in France. Mm-hmm. And I saw that in my own day. Yeah. Right? And so, but I mentioned this because I was thinking maybe today we can talk a little bit about jealousy and envy, right? Mm-hmm. And reading this book, I was thinking to myself, wow, man. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:03] And I think, I really think that looking back on my time as a chef and readings about some of these guys, and kind of the male French hierarchy at the time, again, I think it's very, very different now, but at the time, I think it was personal insecurity. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think it was, a lot of it was just being threatened.

[00:07:32] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Being threatened because what started happening within like five years, they started getting all this huge media attention and people were leaving their restaurants and going to a lot of these women's restaurants, not only because they wanted to support them, number two, the food was better and cheaper. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? And so it was actually better food. Yeah. And healthier food. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:59] And so they call it the movement of the nouvelle cuisine. Mm-hmm. And so anyway, I mention that because I think with regards to, for many people, jealousy and envy really finds its root in personal insecurity. I mean, really, I think that's the kernel of truth underneath that.

[00:08:27] I mean, if we're peeling back the layers of the onion. Yeah. Of why I'm jealous of so-and-so and why I'm envious of so-and-so, a lot of it really kind of comes down to that. Mm-hmm. It really has nothing to do at all with them. It's me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's almost like it's tailor fit to the person. I mean, I think back on reading this book, I was like, man. I mean, clearly, there's no question Paul Bocuse had a massive impact on the food world. Yeah.

[00:08:58] And, but as I'm hearing this story, I'm like, wow, underneath that was a guy who was insecure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so it's, yeah, it's maybe worth digging into. Yeah. Yeah. Because the pressure to maintain that, I'm sure is insane in the culinary world. Mm-hmm. And to be creative, to not burn out.

[00:09:24] And then, but also to have the humility to recognize upcoming talent. Yeah. And to know that you're not always going to be on top. That's right. Yeah. And that's, I think where the insecurity lies is where that, that lack of, that lack of humility of, no, I want to be the best. I, like, I want to be seen. I want to be known. Mm-hmm. And I don't want to share that spotlight with, with anybody else. Yeah. You become threatened. Yeah. So they become your threat.

[00:09:54] Yeah. And we have talked about, I've talked about that a lot lately with, with a lot of people, like even in sports and, and everything, just parents can be threatened by other parents Yeah. Because they're kids, you know, it's just, um, yeah, there's just all those insecurities, but it's, but it's, you know, it's, it's weird. We forgot how to, you know, really cheer the other person on for their sake, you know?

[00:10:24] Yeah, exactly. Because we want to be the one to receive the accolades and the recognition. And I can see, I mean, that would be insanely hard and difficult to maintain that. I think if you're like one of the tops in the culinary world or any, I mean, the singing and music or whatever, you know, you're, you're expected to perform at this high level. Yeah. And then to just say, no, not anymore. Like, oh. And it's a good thing to want to be great.

[00:10:54] It's a good thing to want to be one of the best, but not to be the only best. Yeah, that's right. You know, it's a good thing to have high standards for yourself. It's a good thing to want high standards for your children, for whatever it is that you're doing. That's not a bad thing. It's, and it's, it's good that you want to be great, but know that there's always going to be somebody greater.

[00:11:15] And yeah, there might be someone that's not as great as you, but know that there is a beautiful balance in, in being a good person at whatever it is that you do with humility, knowing that I'm, I can be great, but I'm not perfect. Perfection is completely different than being great. So knowing that there is that one person that is better instead of being threatened, what can I do to learn from this person? Yeah. Instead of being threatened by this person.

[00:11:42] I tell my kids all the time because I used to be afraid of seeing my kids want something that another kid had. And I was like, Ooh, make sure your kids aren't being jealous, jealous kids. So I would be like, let me listen to what they're saying. So they would be like, Oh, I love that they have, man, I wish I had that. That's not a bad thing. Yeah. It's not a bad thing. I'm like, okay, maybe what do we got to do to make sure we get that? Yeah. Aren't we happy that they have that? That's great.

[00:12:07] So it's not a bad thing to want somebody, something that somebody else has. That's a great. But it's the mentality of, or the way that we go about wanting or envying. Yeah. Because being jealous and envy is a little bit, you know, there's a little. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. I mean, well said, like what you guys are talking about.

[00:12:30] I mean, like 300 years before Jesus was born, the Greek philosopher Aristotle, he was talking about envy. He talked a lot about virtue. Yeah. And so he said envy is very, very, is, is there's sometimes used interchangeably jealousy and envy. But he said envy is basically, and I'm paraphrasing the, where we get discouraged at another's good fortune. Yeah.

[00:12:58] Instead of to your point, celebrating their good fortune. Mm-hmm . Now, once that person has good fortune, jealousy would be, I want the good fortune they have. Mm-hmm . And people are jealous of any number of things, right? Money, they don't have the financial stress. Mm-hmm . Good looks. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Their situation in life. I've seen this with some of the single people I know. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .

[00:13:24] Or widows or widowers that I know that are jealous of other people with having a partner or spouse, right? Yeah. Relationship, yeah. Relationship. People can be jealous of another's personality. Mm-hmm . I mean, somebody that comes in and . . Yeah. They know everybody. They know how to work the room, whatever they're on. And then people can be very jealous of other people's minds. Yeah. How do they, how do they know this stuff? They're intelligent, they're very quick on their feet kind of thing.

[00:13:53] So, it's really, it's the temptation I think for many of us. Yeah. As you brought up, Kira, I think it's almost like tailor fit. Yeah. To the person. Mm-hmm . Of what they may be jealous for. And we've talked before about like, especially in marriage. Mm-hmm . That, they have what they call emotional lusting. Mm-hmm . Right?

[00:14:20] Where it's not a physical lusting, but it's emotional lusting that, gosh, their husband really listens to his wife. Yeah. My husband never listens to me. Mm-hmm . And there becomes this kind of emotional lusting that happens, right? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . It can really, really cause major problems. Yeah. And, um, and infidelity. Yeah. So, there's, um, yeah, it's, it's almost tailor fit to everybody. And I mean, I've seen that.

[00:14:48] I don't know if you have even with, um, parents that are like, oh, but they're, look, their kids treat their parents this way. You guys are not treating me this way. You guys should be more like them. Mm-hmm . Yeah, right. And then you get, you know, instead of getting closer to your children, you're actually bringing them away from you. Right, that's right. Mm-hmm . Or, hey, mom, you know, their mom is that way. How come you're not like that to me, mom? Mm-hmm . Yeah. And it's like, instead of bringing together, instead of comparing, you know, I'm sure that

[00:15:17] those relationships that we see, um, either with spouses or with children or with parents, none of them are perfect. Totally. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . I'm sure they've got stuff that, stuff in the closet that nobody really shares. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So we always see the good. Yeah. Uh, but we also, whatever relationship or situation you're in, there's a lot of good in what relationship you have. Mm-hmm . Or, so look at the good and look what you can work on. Yeah.

[00:15:43] Take the good from the others and instead of saying, you're not like that with me. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . But, but we're like this and they don't have that. Well, what can we do to make it better? Yeah. So I'm always, uh, when I like something from a person, I'm like, oh, I want to be more like that. Girl, how do you do that? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . You know? Like, I want to be more, like, you're going through this, but yet you are so positive all the time. How do you do that? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .

[00:16:09] Instead of envying or jealousing or wanting to be, you're like, ugh, how can I be more, can you help me be more like you? Yeah. Yeah. And there, that's a base level humility where one is able to receive the virtue and the, the lessons that another has learned. Mm-hmm . Yeah. Um, and . . . . Yeah. We, uh, yeah, I even, I mean, even recently I had to call it out on in my, in my own self

[00:16:34] and, you know, and talking to my husband about it, just this, you know, that, that, that jealousy or that envy where you see something like good fortune, like, happened to somebody else. Yeah. And it's like, oh, the Holy Spirit's at work and then you're like, sometimes you're like, okay, God. Yeah. Yeah. Girl, we've all been there. I'm here too, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. 100%.

[00:16:58] So, um, and I, and I got, and I was like, and somebody sharing good news with me and I want to, I want to be, yes, like, like outwardly. Yeah. I'm like, I, and even inwardly, I was like, I want to celebrate this and, and be so joyful right now. And I, there was something in me though that was like, oh, with that, okay, Lord, what,

[00:17:26] and it, I was like, oh, noticing that about myself. Yeah. Because I wanted nothing then to be happy for the, and that an only experience that happiness for them, you know? And so, yeah, I had to call that out and just be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And, you know, take it to confession and, but even kind of speak, seek spiritual direction on it. And it's like, you know, never get discouraged about like God is, even if your path is suffering. Yeah.

[00:17:56] And somebody else is experiencing a ton of joy and like all, they're receiving all the great things, but you're in suffering, like God's doing great things. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you're with him like there in the cross and he's close to you. And like, it, it will happen. Things will happen, but you just have to. Be okay with being there. He's, and just know that he's not leaving you. He's right there, you know?

[00:18:26] Mm-hmm. You trust in that goodness. Mm-hmm. So that this discouragement, jealousy, envy doesn't start to, to arise, you know? Yeah. Because he's got you exactly where he wants you and where he needs you. And, um, that's, that's sometimes a tough pill to swallow. Indeed. At times, you know? Yeah. Um, and, uh, but, but it was kind of like the kick in the pants. I mean, I think we've all been sitting in that chair. Oh, yeah. Because you can start throwing a quick pity party. Oh my gosh.

[00:18:54] You know, that jealousy can allow, go into a pity party and then it just is like. And that's how we grow in self-knowledge, right? Mm-hmm. We know ourself. Yeah. And I think that's to your point, Kira, I think as we age, like if I had to guess, I mean, uh, I hope that it doesn't sound condescending, but I think if we were gonna have this discussion five years from now, whatever was that triggered you with that, you'd be like, pfft. Yeah. I mean, and that's how we grow, right? 100%. I mean, that's how we mature.

[00:19:23] Like, I, like what you're, what you're talking about. I've seen that with, um, with, uh, couples with infertility. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? So that's. That happened to me a hundred percent. That, uh. It took us four years to conceive. And I remember my closest cousin father, um, I don't, I, I, I remember if it was, she wasn't looking to be pregnant or something and she had this beautiful pregnancy and, and I

[00:19:50] was so happy for her, but I just could not. And I had just had two miscarriages back to back. Mm-hmm. And I could not find myself being able to visit her. Mm-hmm. To see her child. And there was no hate. Yeah. There, I, I loved her, but I just could not. Mm-hmm. Why is it that I have this want and I want, and I'm here, Lord, I'm in your house. I work for you. I worship you. I minister for you. Why can't I? Mm-hmm.

[00:20:19] And it was like, wait a second. Yeah. It's not in my time. Right. It's in his time. Yeah. And this beautiful baby was meant to bless this family. Yeah. And then I came to visit my cousin and I remember I sobbed to her and I'm like, I'm so sorry. I have been not, you know, cause I know you've had the baby. Mm-hmm. And I think it was like, she was three months old at this point. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I have not been able to, and I'm confessing to you why. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:43] And she's like, I never called you because I felt guilty that I had a child and you didn't. Mm-hmm. So she's like, I knew that I also didn't want to. Yeah. So it was like, we just embraced each other and loved each other. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. But it's not, sometimes we have to remember, you know, our human instinct is to feel the certain way, but we have to ask God's grace for God's grace. Mm-hmm. Because this is super easy to do. Mm-hmm. Go into jealousy, go to envy, go to sadness with somebody, you know.

[00:21:13] So without God's grace, it is nearly impossible. Yeah. And it's very, very hard. Yeah. So the only way that you see this is, you know, when you sit down and you say, okay, Lord, I know that you're going to do this for me. Mm-hmm. Maybe not in my time. Yeah. So whenever it is that it's your time, it will be. Yeah. And even if it's forever. Yeah. And we don't really know when, we just have to trust. Yeah. It is, that is very hard, which is, I mean, that's a very mature, like spiritual mature

[00:21:44] position to take, right? And, and, and surrendering that, man, that's, that is really, really hard. And, and I, I don't know why the jealousy piece is so difficult for some people and why they're so threatened. And I sometimes wonder if there's not some kind of, not to psychoanalyze it truly, but

[00:22:11] I do think sometimes maybe there's woundedness there or sometimes, in some instances, mental illness as well, that it's mixed into that where people can be highly vindictive and, and to some extent, spiritual warfare and mixed in there too. Right. I mean, I think for instance, in Matthew's Gospel, when Jesus, he says, he's talking about

[00:22:37] like the, the, how the Pharisees and the Sadducees are like you, one sees the, the jealousy, that all these people are coming to Jesus. And it's said several times that, that the, they were very, very threatened by them because they were listening to them. Yeah. They wanted to kill Jesus, but they saw that the people were hanging on his everywhere. Whereas like, you'd think, dude, really? Yeah. Like people are getting closer to God.

[00:23:04] Like what's the, why are you so threatened by this? And so. Well, and that's something that I've kind of noticed at times. I mean, my own self too, is on the spiritual level, a lot of us are still middle schoolers. Yeah. Right. Or kindergarten. You know. Yeah. Where we're kind of just like stuck in that middle school mentality almost. Yeah. And it's like transposed now into adulthood cause we're older. Yeah.

[00:23:34] And it's, it's just, um, yeah. It, I mean, because I was telling a story. Like my daughter has this really cool sports banner. It was really, really cool. And I was like, oh my gosh, she looked fantastic in it. It was so cool. Well, she was like, all the boys made fun of me about it. And I'm like, they're just jealous. Yeah. Like they were just jealous that they didn't have that cool sports banner, you know?

[00:24:00] Like, and it was, and I'm like, no, I think it was the, like the inner insecure boy was like, hmm. Yeah. Right. And you know, and then a priest friend of ours was like, no, that banner is iconic. Like, so I'm like, okay, now they're spiritual adulthood. Yeah. They're, you know, it's like, that's iconic. Like we're going to call out, you know? Right. And that's kind of where I think like, sometimes we find ourselves, you know, sometimes mentally, spiritually, social media. Yeah.

[00:24:30] No, indeed. Summertime, vacations and stuff. We can, we can see all those pictures and see all the stuff that's out there and just be like, that, that, that didn't look all that great. Or you're just like waiting to hear about the one wrong thing that happened on that fantastic trip. Right. Right. Instead of just being overly, you know, joyful. Good for them. It's awesome. They're in a season of life where they can do that. Like, praise God. Like, you know. It reminds you of the Southern, oh, bless her heart. Yeah.

[00:25:00] I love that. Yeah. Bless her heart. I mean, gosh, she looks so bad in that dress. Bless her heart. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love your dress. I mean, it's like, I'm like, you know what? I'm like, yeah, sometimes. And even my husband will tell me that. I mean, he's like, here, let's be honest. Most men don't develop beyond like middle school boys in their way of thinking and humor.

[00:25:23] But to that point though, I do kind of like question, you know, I think as women, like we, yes, there are insecurities in women and everybody's always known that. I don't think many people have talked a lot about insecurities in men. Oh, I'm sure there's a lot. And let me count the ways. And because there's always this rough and tough exterior. And so it just, and that, you know, going back to your original comment about the chef,

[00:25:50] you know, like there's this rough and tough exterior, but like, and I think manliness is maybe like, yes, having that, that strong exterior, but also doing the work on the inside to, to be more humble, to be able to, you know, be willing to allow other people to shine. I mean, is, is that true that there's that with men, there is quite a bit of insecurity? Yeah.

[00:26:18] And that's, I could not agree more. I mean, and I think, yeah, there's no question in that. Again, this is my opinion, but I think especially in men that tends to manifest itself as they get older. Uh, so for instance, with, uh, whereas, you know, you may have middle school boys that duke it out or something, right? Uh, as men get in their fifties, uh, usually or sixties, they realize they're not as quick.

[00:26:47] They're not the, the, they may be in a, in a better, they may be in a different income bracket, but they realize the guys coming in at the same company are actually quicker. They know a lot more and they've, uh, so it's a, it's an interesting dichotomy, whereas they kind of feel like, I'm no longer that man. I'm no longer that guy, the new. And, and so there's a bit of a threatening kind of thing.

[00:27:15] Whereas ironically, the younger guys would look at the older guys and think, wow, man, they've really reached the echelon of, and, and so it's interesting on both levels. One sees a bit of insecurity, right? And which is to say nothing. I think you, you'd mentioned that too. There's a healthy sense of competition that can happen. It's a, it's a very different phenomenon, right? Because as, as you were talking about Sylvia, I think where we were, there's a healthy sense

[00:27:44] of competition, but ultimately we want what's best for that person. Right. And so I don't want to see them fall on their face. Yeah. And, and, and St. Paul talks a lot about this, the members of the body, so to speak. And, and would you say to, sorry to interrupt, but would you say to envy would almost take it to, no, I want to see them fall on their face. No question. No question. Like jealousy would be like, oh, I'm jealous, but I don't want to see them totally fall on their face. Envy would take it to the level of no fall on your face.

[00:28:14] No question. I will enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the big distinction there. So sorry. Yeah. And the root cause I, I think, and I think the saints would agree is, is really insecurity and lack of identity in Christ as having been made in God's image and likeness. And, and having a deep awareness of self-confidence as we've talked about before in the podcast, very, very different from arrogance. Mm-hmm. Self-confidence is rooted in humility. Arrogance is rooted in ego.

[00:28:44] Yeah. And so, uh, whereas one is self-confident, they, they may have the flirtation of envy or jealousy, but they check themselves. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. I wish you the best, bro. Yeah. That kind of thing. So if I'm sitting, uh, watching this podcast on my phone, my TV, wherever it is that I'm watching, and I'm feeling like there's a bunch of these points that are being touched on and I have found myself, cause I think a little, I mean, we've all been there. We've all seen that too.

[00:29:14] But if right now I'm feeling like, you know what? That's me right now. What can I do? What's the first step? Would it be surrendering or checking myself? Or what would be that first step where I need to stop? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, there, there's a lot I could say there, but I would say in brief, uh, and there's other episodes that we've talked about our triggers, but I think a lot of times people

[00:29:38] don't concretize their triggers well enough to where they're able to, uh, what they call arrest or check them when they're, when they're activated. Mm-hmm. So, uh, for instance, I'm going to a Christmas party with, uh, with my husband and I know that we're going to run into so-and-so's, uh, uh, family and they have this house in Kiowa and we don't, whatever it is. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:07] I know I'm going to be in that situation and I, then I find myself in that situation. I'm able to check myself. That's self, to Kira's point, that's self-knowledge that tends to, as time goes on, get easier. Yeah. Which means we're happier people. When we're happier people, we communicate better with other people. Yeah. Organically. Mm-hmm. And so I think, I, I, I really do think that's a big piece of it.

[00:30:31] And I would also add, uh, finally, just, uh, ask somebody that's really humble can ask their spouse or someone that they know well, what do you think is my triggers? Mm-hmm. Like, what do you, you know me, like, what do you think triggers me? Yeah. And the person's usually a little skittish. Yeah. Like, are you sure you want to know? Yeah. Right? You're not going to kill me if I tell you. Yeah. Right? And then I would suggest they trade. So it's not just a one-way thing. Okay, well now you tell me mine. Mm-hmm. Right?

[00:31:00] And, and, um, it's really, it takes humility, but it is, it bears richer, richer root. Yeah. And, and then you kind of help each other as checks and balances. It doesn't happen overnight. No, totally. So this is something that we're going to be working on for the rest of our lives. Yeah. Yeah. New, new, uh, situations in life, new things happen, new things come up. Yeah. Change of age.

[00:31:29] You can't do it with God's grace. You can't do it without him. Well, we send out a shout out to all of our great female chefs out there. Woo! Yes. Rock on sisters. Rock on. Don't forget to put soul in your food and give food to your soul. God bless you.