Fr. Ben discusses with Silvia and Khira his recent mission trip to Guatemala as well as the Pope's new encyclical. Both pertain to upholding the dignity of the human person. Listen to hear how.
[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to the Soul Food Priest podcast of Fr. Ben. It's wonderful as always to have you and I'm here with Kiera and Sylvia again. Hello. How's life? Great. Yeah. It's fun being moms of teenagers. No thanks. No thanks. So fun. Dropping off and picking them up and dropping them off and picking them up. I need a dress and I need a suit. What do you, what do you, what happens if you say you're not getting a dress?
[00:00:30] In fact, I'm not gonna feed you anymore. That would be fudge. I would be okay with that. Because that's an option. It is but I'm gonna be honest, I wanna get that dress. I don't know if it's like a girl mom thing. You wanna go? Like I wanna go dress shopping. So I know I'm complaining about it but like it's more complaining but it's also like aww, they're growing up. Let's go dress shopping, you know? But I won't tell them that. I make them feel guilty. Yeah, but that requires caring.
[00:01:00] Yeah. And he's like shopping. That's a dad point of view. Yeah, he's like that requires shopping. I don't do that. What happened to the days that like they, you drop your kids off to the mall and say go figure it out. Oh yeah, that's warm. I'll be back in about four. Yeah, not in Memphis. About four or five days. That's like nowhere. Well yeah, probably. Malls are for the most part shut down. Like it's just, that's a, nope. Yeah. Yeah. No, that doesn't happen anymore.
[00:01:27] Can't you just like, can't you just tell your kid to like go on Amazon and get something or do you not know what? No, yes but. Yeah. Yeah. We wanna go dress. No. Yeah. Well, and then there is. We're fine. We'll stop complaining. Well then there is also. He's giving us ideas that we don't wanna take. Yeah. Yeah. He's giving us advice we don't wanna take. Well, but then there is also the, I need to be there to say no. Oh, true. Because. You can't do that on Amazon? I mean you have to bring this. I don't have access to my Amazon.
[00:01:54] But then you get that dress in, it is not going to fit the way it fits that model. No way. It just doesn't. Really? Wow. I mean men's clothing, yeah, because y'all are like pfft. Women? Nope. There's so many shapes and the way the dresses fit so different from the girl. We're okay though. And you can't wear the dress more than once, right? We're okay. No. That's like. It's one and done kinda thing. What do you do with all the dresses? The girls kinda like. Switch them up. Switch them out. Yeah.
[00:02:21] Because you can't see, like you can't wear the same dress more than once. No. That is a teenager's scent. No. Wow. Oh man. And the guys, the guys wear the same suit. Yeah of course. Yeah they do. They just change their tides. Yeah. Of course. You know, I think this is a woman, like females made this up. Like in the sense that like. Clearly. Because even now, if I look at a dress, I'm like, well I can't wear that at the baptism because I wore that at the graduation and it'll be in two different pictures.
[00:02:51] So we still have that mentality. I mean, so it's kind of, it's still. It's so true though. I mean. I have said that in this podcast before. Maybe this is just a self-inflicted one. Well, if it's any consolation. Should we cut this part? Yeah. No. No, there you go. There you go. I think I told you guys. So we just got back, our group just got back from Guatemala. I'm so excited for you. Yes. And they, which was amazing. It was incredible.
[00:03:16] And, but I have noticed, we were around some of the, some of the local indigenous people. I think I told you there's 22 languages in Guatemala, which is beautiful. It's amazing. I love the country, but they wear the same clothes every day. Yeah. Look at us. Yeah. We're cutting this part. Yeah. Okay. No, we're keeping it just for your entertainment. Same clothes every day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Please tell us how was that experience for everybody. It was, it was amazing. It was amazing experience. I hate.
[00:03:45] And we had a great team that went and that really was awesome. We had a lot of time with the kind of the local people and it's a small country, Guatemala, but what you, it takes a long time to get around because the roads are so bad. Mm-hmm . And they just wind up and down and in and out and stuff like that. And so much so that I like, I never get motion sickness. Yeah.
[00:04:13] But I had to kind of stand up from time to time in the bus because it was just like, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm . And, but it was really, really beautiful. And you got to see your sponsored girls. What, tell us their ages again? Uh, I think it's 14 and 17. No. And you sponsored them back when they were itty bitty. Mm-hmm . Aw. Yeah, so for 10 years now. Aw. Yep.
[00:04:39] And then, um, and everybody in our group was able to meet their sponsors and have time with them. And then in two years, we're going to try to go to El Salvador and do like a work thing. And I was supposed to be there by the way. So I'm like excited, but then like bummed. Yeah. But, um, I'm just happy you guys had that. It was, it was great. It was great. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, El's on the door for me. Yeah. I think you'd like it. I mean, the, they're, they're super awesome people. Yeah.
[00:05:07] And, um, there's something really special about being with them, especially in like dark times when they go through kind of listening to some of their challenges. I think I told you the two girls that I sponsor, their parents don't speak Spanish. Mm-hmm. So I have to speak to them in Spanish and then they translate to their parents because they speak what's called Kiche or one of the local dialects and stuff like that. So they don't even speak Spanish.
[00:05:38] Yeah. Wow. And so, um, that's how, how the kind of the Mayan dialects and Mayan languages are. Yeah. So there's like Kiche Cachiquel, mom, um, what's the other one? Kiche Cachiquel. I can't remember the, there's, there's, uh, 22 total. So Spanish is one of 22 languages. So please visit the St. Michael website and Father Ben's, um, not the website, but the Facebook and social media.
[00:06:05] All the pictures are there and you get to see all the amazing volunteers that went to help out and visit. Yeah. So it was just a beautiful, beautiful trip. It was, it was really beautiful. It was beautiful. Plus, frankly, it's good for us to get our people out of the, out of the parish to go. Yeah. And, and you spent a lot of time with these people because you're traveling with them, working with them, eating with them. And, uh, so it, it's always helpful if you've got a good group. Yeah.
[00:06:33] You've got somebody that's not, like kills morale. Yeah. Fortunately, we didn't have any of that. And, uh, so it was a really awesome, awesome crew. Awesome. Yeah. I was thinking about, uh, on our trip, I was thinking about, uh, Pope Leo's encyclical. Mm-hmm. Um, if, uh, if, if they're not, people are not familiar with it, it's called Magnifica Humanitas. Mm-hmm. A magnificent humanity. But he talks about, uh, the dignity of work.
[00:07:02] And, um, in Guatemala, as similar with other Central American countries, there's, it's very, very hilly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you see, it's not uncommon to see hills that are literally like this. Mm-hmm. And you see people with a rope wrapped around their waist walking backwards down the hill, picking coffee beans. Wow. Or even cocoa beans.
[00:07:26] In some places in Central America, uh, cocoa beans are worth more than the local currency. Wow. And so, so they will actually pay for things with cocoa beans. Wow. And, um, and, and very rural parts. Mm-hmm. And, um, but in his encyclical, he wrote it on the, it came out on May 15th of this, of this year.
[00:08:00] Mm-hmm. Uh, and at the time, it came out in, uh, 1891 of that year. Mm-hmm. Uh, he was talking about the Industrial Revolution. And kind of what was happening there with, um, uh, so many of the families leaving the agriculture. Mm-hmm. Of the, kind of the countryside. And they were going into the city. Yeah. And then he was talking about how, uh, look, we can't just use, remember they had all these
[00:08:26] child labor things that you had 10 year old kids working 80 hour weeks. I mean, horrible, horrible. And so he's like, we cannot do that. Mm-hmm. That's unacceptable. And, but he was talking about human labor and the importance of labor. And that, um, that document, uh, Rerum Navarm, it's called, uh, was kind of the Magna Carta of Catholic social doctrine. Yeah.
[00:08:53] So in other words, um, all the popes of the last century, I think with the exception of John Paul I, because he was the only pope for 33 days. Um, I think every one of them wrote a document building on that document. So that was a very, very pivotal document for Catholic teaching, what we call social doctrine. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:16] So, um, so Leo wrote Magnifica Humanitas, uh, as kind of a follow up as the next Leo. Yeah. Uh, front, front, from that. And he's talking a lot about, uh, okay, how do we, how do we navigate these waters of artificial intelligence? Right. And, um, and I'll be honest, cause I, I mean, I know a little, but I don't know a lot at all.
[00:09:47] Yeah. Um, well, yeah, I was just, I was at my parents this morning actually. And while I was getting ready, I heard them listening to the news and they were talking about how right now, uh, they're the, the government, a lot of people are starting to pump the brakes. Like some of the top business owners of AI are starting to pump the brakes because now they're starting to question where, how do we regulate this? Yeah. Once this really gets out, how do we start to regulate it?
[00:10:16] And they were starting to recognize it could get out of control quite quickly if it's not regulated, but so they're all kind of got these think tanks going on of what could possibly happen. Yeah. All the what ifs and it's numerous and it's, and it's kind of a, an interesting brink to be upon because it's whether they pump the brakes now or whenever it's here and you know, uh, and, and so it is going to be that, that new question of back in the industrial revolution,
[00:10:46] how did the government step in to protect families, to protect the people? Um, but, and so now we're kind of here on the brink of another precipice of, okay, we've got this new technological advancement that will greatly affect human dignity and families. So what do we, how does, how does the church going to respond or how should governments respond to, to this? So it's interesting that making that connection, uh, between the two because, um, cause that's,
[00:11:14] that's what they're, that's what they're afraid of is, is one of the biggest concerns that they were talking about today is how will we know what's real and what's not real anymore? That's going to be the biggest question. And, um, yeah. So it's, yeah, it's really true. I mean, and it's, I think we're all figuring it out as we go. I mean, and one of the things that Leo points out is like the church as, as you guys know,
[00:11:43] is not against technology. We are not like, okay, let's just hide away in our little enclave and ignore all this evil stuff. I mean, that's not the way we see things nor will you ever. I mean, like, um, recently Kira and I taught a class on, uh, Vatican II. And that was one of the points going way back. And, and one of the documents of Vatican II, it's called Inter Morifica on the media is that this is good. This is a good thing.
[00:12:12] I mean, um, what we have to do is make sure is give it guardrails. Yeah. And Leo points out, look, a human being is not a list of algorithms, but if we're not careful, those algorithms that people write to generate data, um, can easily, uh, we can use people as a means to an end. And so in other words, um, we're, we're kind of, we're using people creating them and forming
[00:12:42] their minds in terms of how can we get money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is what it comes down to, right? I mean, that's what this all comes down to. Something that I gathered, I didn't read the whole thing, but, um, one thing that I just stuck out to me was the fact that, you know, AI artificial intelligence and human intelligence is very different. Um, but not only that we're not only human intellect, you know, we have, we have
[00:13:10] dignity, we have conscience, we have freedom to say yes or no. So it's like, sometimes we rely on it so much because we're in a rush and I'm like, it's just a, Oh, okay, here we go. Let me just use it a little bit, but we should never let it take over. Or like I tell my kids, if you're stuck on something, don't automatically go to Google or don't, it's like first think, first think maybe you do know, but you know that it's right there and you go to it. Yeah.
[00:13:40] So it's like picking up a calculator. It's easier, but you know, you can just take longer and solve the problem that you would just want a quick go to. Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, pointed out to me was like, yes, it's there, but we should never, that should never be before. Yeah. Yeah. That's after your human intellect, your dignity and your conscience and your freedom and all of that. So it's hard though, especially for the kids now. Yeah.
[00:14:07] I could just, I could just go to Chachipity mom and they could help me out. And, and I mean, we're all guilty. Yeah. We're all guilty. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a really good point you bring up, right? Because we're trying to, trying to teach that back many, many years ago, like in the time of Augustine, we're talking sixth century ish. Um, they had in those days, uh, what they call rhetoric and logic. Mm-hmm .
[00:14:34] And so, um, so in other words, they were kind of taught how to think through a problem. Mm-hmm . Yeah. And now one of the things I think that nobody talks about with regards to AI and, and really to some extent social media as a whole, they, people immediately, they don't know how to think through a problem. They don't. And so what will happen is everybody is put into the liberal conservative taxonomy. Yeah.
[00:15:02] And so they become highly emotive over somebody that disagrees with them and highly emotive over how many likes they get. Mm-hmm . And so there, therein lies a lot of the, the, the challenge, I think, especially for you guys. I mean, for me, it's easy, right? I don't have kids, but like, how do you talk to your kid about the fact that your dignity is not tied to how many likes they get, right? And how many views and all that stuff, right? Yeah.
[00:15:31] And so, and that's the, that's like questioning oxygen. Yeah. Yeah. At this point. I mean, it really is. Mm-hmm . And, and these are for Christian people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So like, and, and you can imagine as we, as we get going on this beast 20 years down the road, wherever you are. Mm-hmm . So I think that's why it's important to give some guardrails. Yeah. And, and I am happy.
[00:15:59] I, I'm, I'm not in any way, shape or form, uh, uh, like an authority on this stuff, but I do try to follow some of it. Mm-hmm . And there is a lot more, uh, accountability from the federal government that's coming down on some of these, uh, social media companies. Yeah. Um, that, uh, because they know they're, they're data mining. Yeah. Basically. And so the question becomes, okay, how do we, how do we have a free market? Yeah.
[00:16:29] And yet at the same time, how do we, um, how do we also permit, we recognize that this could easily go off the rails as it already has. Yeah. I mean, it already has, right? Absolutely. There's a movie coming out. I'm sure you guys have seen the preview. It's called The Social Reckoning. Mm-hmm . Um, Jeremy Allen Wright, uh, Wright is in this and, um, White. Right.
[00:16:52] And that's what it's about is the, is, is everything that's happened with, uh, Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg and stuff like that. Mm-hmm . And, and that's one of many of course. Yeah. But how this has formed a lot of, uh, teen girls, especially. Yeah. Yeah. Not that you guys would know anything about this. It's, yeah, it's so hard to, so difficult to navigate now because I mean that, that is,
[00:17:20] technology has to be the, like, probably the number one struggle, daily struggle for parents. Yeah. I, it would, I would say, it is a daily struggle. You restrict, you try to restrict the screens. You try to restrict the screen time. You try to, you do all of these things and yet it's still infiltrates. Somehow it is still there. And it, it is a struggle because you do your, you know, it's like, okay, you can't have a
[00:17:49] social media account, but then you find them scrolling on YouTube or it's just, it, technology is constantly trying to get at them and then to be surrounded by so many friends. Like to fit in, you need to know the means. Right. You need to know the, the, all the different trends and all the different that you need. And, and so it is tough. It is a, it is a daily, it is a constant daily struggle and you see how, how distracted they can, they can become.
[00:18:19] And, and it's just, yeah, yeah. It's just my husband and I, there have been times where I'm just like. But I, I think as, as moms and dads and you know, households that have a mom and a dad or single parent houses, I, you have, it's okay to be the bad guy. You know, sometimes we're, we want to be our kids friends so bad and that we forget that we have to be their parent first.
[00:18:47] And it's very hard to say no to this or limit this. Well, my friends are also doing it. And then you pull out the grandma thing. If you jump, if you, they jump off the bridge, are you going to jump off a bridge? I've been this close to saying that. I say it all the time. This close. And I'm like. Little Elena says, are you going to say the jump the bridge stuff? But it's like, you have to be a parent first. Right. Sure. Sure. It's okay to be the bad guy. It is. And that, and not to interrupt you, but as you heard me say before, I think that, I
[00:19:15] mean, if it's any consolation, I think that's, that is absolutely one of the hardest things for many priests to learn as well is that very issue. And the, the argument that I've heard with priests to your point is that often when they're not, when they're associate pastors, it's easier for them to have those hard conversations than
[00:19:41] when they're pastors because the pastors are the ones that are getting the, the brunt of vitriol from people. And, and so I think it's, so I definitely agree with that. And I think it's, but point being, I think it's hard for all of us because by nature, people want to be liked. And so I think what happens is you, as a parent, I'm guessing, put myself in your shoes. Yeah. Number one, you have to set the example.
[00:20:09] One cannot be just staring at their phone all the time. Which is tough. It is, it is, right? Especially when you, this kid's got to be here and there and then live 360 and blah, blah, blah. On the other hand too, the, you have to have a sense of one's own identity, I would imagine as a parent, right? Yeah. Which again is tough. Indeed. Yeah. Like it's, it is tough to model these things. I mean, it is, it is very tough because you do recognize I've got to, I have to model
[00:20:39] this and instead of, and that's, that's one of the things that I think we've been trying to do is teach the kids rhetoric and logic, try to teach them their dignity. Um, and it's, it's a tough thing to, to try to, to try to do because it, it, they just, it's some, it's different. It's counter cultural and it's very different, difficult to do the counter cultural thing at the time.
[00:21:05] But then at times, like when we do vacations or something, it's like, we're going to somewhere, place beautiful. Like we're going to go hiking. Let's put the phones away. Um, you know, even recently I looked at the kids, beautiful summer nights and I'm like, let's go stargazing. And they're like, Oh yeah. One of them was like, yes. The others were like, I was like, we're turning off the TV. We're going stargazing. We're just going to go out in the side yard, grab a couple of towels. We're laying on our backs.
[00:21:34] And they're just like, it became a fantastic night. It was hilarious, like memories made and it was way more fun than they thought it was going to be. Um, and so, yeah, it's just, but, but sometimes like my default could be sitting on the couch watching TV at the end of a long day. But then all of a sudden I'm like, let's get up. Let's go try to do this. We have to fight it ourselves. Yeah.
[00:22:00] So it's hard to model that too, because it's, there's, there's a lot of demands, a lot of things, especially as adults coming at us. And by the time you get to a certain point in time in your day, yeah, you do want to default to scrolling and to laying down and to resting and relaxing, but to, to turn it off, to try to pray, to try to do some of these things. And you still have to actively engage in something.
[00:22:25] So for the Pope to come out and say, this is going on with the world right now. And it's not that we're for it. It's not that we're against it. Right. But we know it's out there. Right. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like to your point, Kira, like, not only are we showing them a sense of beauty and, but you're, you, one creates a memory with your kids. Right.
[00:22:52] I mean, which tattoos the heart, even when we think that they're not, that they could care less and they're drilling their eyes. I mean, we were all there. Oh yeah. And so, but it creates a memory. Mm-hmm. And that's what, from the standpoint of the, of the church, that's one of the reasons that we do processions. Mm-hmm. Like the Corpus Christi procession, for instance. Yeah, yeah. Right. A lot of these kids, right? They're not going to remember anything I say. Their parents are not going to remember anything I say. Mm-hmm. Right. And nor do I expect them to. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:22] On the other hand, if nothing else, my goal as a pastor is that they, as they get older, they go to college, they drift away from the church. At some point, they're going to have a longing. Yeah. For those memories that they remember as a kid. Mm-hmm. And it may be a gravitational pull. Yeah. To bring them back. That's all masking. Yeah. That's all I want. Right. Truly. And so I think it's kind of similar, I would guess. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:48] And I think one of the things that Leo points out in the encyclical is that there's a healthy sense of wanting to help humanity. Yeah. But one of the things I think he points out that's really important is that sometimes suffering, illness, old age, as painful as these things are, they're part of the human condition and God can bring good out of it. Right. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:15] And so I think sometimes people will full on advocate for this is going to be great, it's going to alleviate all this stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's a healthy sense of wanting to help. Mm-hmm. Like for instance, okay, how can we help from the standpoint of adult stem cells, for instance, to help alleviate Alzheimer's? Yeah. Everybody would agree that's a good thing. Mm-hmm. Different from embryonic stem cells.
[00:24:45] Mm-hmm. On the other hand, good can come out of challenging situations. Yeah. As painful as it is, we're all going to be there. At some point. Right? And so, and that was his point is that some people just throw open the doors and say, we have to embrace this so that we can alleviate all human suffering and stuff like this. Yeah. And Leo's like, no man, it doesn't work that way. Like sometimes God can bring good out of challenging situations.
[00:25:14] And we will all go through them in life. At some point. Yeah. Yeah. And as you talked about with Rerum Navarum, you know, and labor and labor laws and all of that, you know, labor is good. Even in the beginning, after God created man, he would till the soil. Yeah. And that was before sin. Yeah. That was before the fall. He, there is a, there is a dignity to labor. There is a dignity.
[00:25:40] It is the working with the human hands to provide is really a beautiful thing. And, but also he said, you know, keep holy the Sabbath. So that, that make sure you're taking that time for leisure to, to take in the beauty, to take in, you know, to recognize that labor does not consume and rule your life. Mm-hmm . That you still, you know, you, you rely solely on God. Right.
[00:26:07] And, and we, especially after the fall and, you know, there, the industrial revolution, I would even say now we are like work, work, work, work, work, and then crash. Yeah. And then work, work, work, and then crash. Right. And so, which is not in accordance to our dignity, which is not in accordance to the dignity of labor and, and to religion as well. So it's, it's, it's, again, I think, I feel like Pope Leo is also hearkening back this
[00:26:37] idea of, of we cannot let everything consume us for the almighty dollar. You know, that there is, there is good that we can do with our hands and that we should do with our hands and with our work. There is good, but we have to make sure it's all for the common good. Yeah. It is not just for selfish gain, for selfish reasons and everything, but we also need to keep the guardrails in our own lives where we do that. We make sure we maintain that dignity and we don't let it overtake us and draw us away from
[00:27:06] God, draw us away from other people and become very insular, which is kind of in a way where AI is starting to go is more becoming, starting to isolate people a little bit more. Um, and so I think it's, I think it's good to have that recognition, you know? I mean, and that's something tough going back to parenting. That's definitely tough to even teach kids is that their dignity, that work is good. Labor is good because you tell them to do chores and they're like, oh, like we're like these workhorses, you know?
[00:27:35] But it's like, no, you have, that's part of being a part of a community and, and, and you, you are called to help the common good. And, and that might even be sweeping the floors. That is helping the common good of this family and maintaining peace. And trying to instill that now is tough, especially with so many distractions, technological distractions and kind of going on autopilot.
[00:28:02] Try to train them in that because it's like, if you're dating, you're thinking of marriage and marriage is going to be sacrificing yourself for another person. You're going to have to do all this stuff, these chores, all these things. Um, again, good, but just make sure it doesn't become, you know, for oneself and one on one's own gain. So, yeah, that's a, it's a really good point. I invest the expression that we're human beings, not human doings. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:29] And yet our dignity, there is a dignity found in work. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, you know, Francis DeZales in the introduction of the devout life makes that point. The Little Flower makes that point. John Paul's encyclical, Laborum Exerciens, which he wrote in a hospital bed recovering from a gunshot wound, makes that point that labor has value. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:55] And yet we're, we are, our, our value is not, uh, is not gained solely by our labor. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, it's, we're always relearning, especially those of us that have grown up in a capitalist culture, right? There's a sense of, of kind of forgetting that. Yeah. Cool stuff. Cool stuff. Hey, listen, don't forget to put soul in your food and give food to your soul. God bless you.